-----Original
Message-----
From: David Grey [mailto:davidgrey@lesboel.freeserve.co.uk]
Sent:
To: newintermediaries@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: NI - sociopaths..and scapegoating
I think we need be careful
about terms like sociopath, especially when the
The term sociopath, within
psychiatric discourse, has always referred to a very tiny minority of the human
population. Whereas, at the risk of repeating myself, I think bullying is
something that every human being is capable of given the right situations or
group dynamics. There is a difference between the chronic inability to
empathise at the level of fundamental personality (sociopathy, or what is now
referred to as asocial personality disorder), and the temporary withdrawal of
empathy which characterises bullying, scapegoating etc.
When 800,000 people were
murdered in
The de-humanisation of an
"other" we wish to persecute or exclude is not limited to
Jews, Tutsis etc. We can also do it to "sociopaths", paedophiles,
bullies etc.
The same dynamics go on, at
less murderous level, every day in families, groups, organisations and online
discussion groups. Pretending only small minorities contain the badness
(a) misattributes the sources of human malice and (b) just sets up the next
group for persecution ("lets go and kill all the sociopaths!").
The myth that problems in
groups and organisations can be swiftly resolved as soon as we identify and
remove the bad person(s) is one of the single biggest obstacles to solving the
real problems in groups and organisastions.
David Grey
-----Original Message-----
From: tapelem [mailto:tapelem@yahoo.com]
Sent:
To:
newintermediaries@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: NI - The
Trouble With Troublemakers
..So how did it go and what
did you learn?
_
-----Original Message-----
From: Maureen G [mailto:maureen48@hotmail.com]
Sent:
To:
newintermediaries@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: NI - The
Trouble With Troublemakers
Troublemakers..........My I
have been called that the better part of my
life......all because I have
the audacity to ask Why? Being a non
compliant
child....I always wanted
more info.....I challenged the folks I
guess.....when all I wanted
was more info.....see I have found that to solve
problems.....it is not about
having all of the right answers but rather
posing the right
questions....Hope there are other troublemakers on the
forum......Maureen
May God bless you always and
in all ways
-----Original
Message-----
From: Richard F Cooke [mailto:wholean@onetel.net.uk]
Sent:
To: NI
Subject: NI - Troublemakers-R-us
Dear David,
Fiona and other Troublemakers,
Many thanks
for a stimulating day yesterday. Another
thought provoking day amongst interesting people.
On
reflecting on the day I’m left with a few thoughts, and I don’t know if that is
the germs of a second workshop, an online dialogue or just my stuff!
It seemed to
me we spent most of the time discussing and exploring the role of being
the troublemaker. There was a general
presumption that we were being constructive and creative in that position. With the exception of the goldfish bowl
dialogue we didn’t really look at what it was like to suffer troublemakers, or
label someone as a troublemaker, or examine how we might creatively deal with
them and their issues. Having
acknowledged that troublemakers have positive agendas, we didn’t seem to
develop any strategies to help them deliver their positive contributions when
we were being troubled. Did I miss that
part?
Another
personal reflection (and I’m taking a risk here because I’m not sure that it
was a shared one), was that our process did a lot to open things up, but little
to close it down. Maybe the group
learning style is personal reflection, but as a lot of us seemed very
stimulated by the discussion part. I would have valued some conclusions, and
learnings (maybe you did that part after
This leads
me onto something we did touch on
yesterday, which does interest me, as a group of highly skilled facilitators we
seem to be reluctant to take our own medicine, in anything other than
homeopathic doses. Is this because we
feel that we don’t need it, we don’t
like it or that this is the most powerful dosage?
I
have been wondering for sometime if it would be interesting to do a day on the
facilitation and what it means to us…. Is there any energy out there for doing
this??
Regards,
Richard F Cooke
-----Original
Message-----
From: tonypage [mailto:tony@pageconsulting.co.uk]
Sent:
To: newintermediaries@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: NI - Troublemakers-R-us
Dear Richard and the troublemakers and all
Just a few quick irresponsible reactions (.... imagine me standing at the bar end of our line up, extremely troublesome, furthest from compliance!).... just a blast of words that might be misinterpreted...
On your question about suffering trouble-makers, and your sense that we're reluctant to "take our own medicine", this has set me off.... into an idea....I wonder if you/we are reaching towards a new, post-authoritarian way of leading/facilitating that was demonstrated by David and Fiona in yesterday's session?
This way includes more than it controls, is very empathic, flexible, in the moment, sees itself, embraces paradoxes such as needing structure AND freedom, brings awareness, choice, stretches us, trusts us, lets each person find their voice, lets the group live on the edge between orderliness and chaos, makes "mistakes" and has built in capacity to recover, and is effective only through moving with the emerging collective energy/interest in the group. It enables the group to function as more than the sum of its parts. It enables people to grow.
It could on the one hand be seen as "shambolic" but also could be seen as "transparent and skilful".
Maybe this is a fantasy, but maybe its a way for people to be at their best with each other. I did not want conclusions made for me by the group ... but I found myself very stimulated and that's all I want.
I realise everyone wants different amounts of structure and we each have to have what's right for us to feel "enabled".
Maybe I'm just an ageing hippy maverick but I find I'm not so interested in re-experiencing "taking our own medicine" if that means "being controlled"!
I am interested in exploring the limits of this emerging post-authoritarian, disorderly facilitation/leadership model though if that's what you're proposing.
Tony
-----Original
Message-----
From: Richard F Cooke [mailto:wholean@onetel.net.uk]
Sent:
To: newintermediaries@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: NI - Troublemakers-R-us
Tony,
(Turns
on the Bob Dylan, dons caftan, lights joss-stick)
I can
see a lot of merit in your suggestion and your take. However, the thought that provoked me is how
to get the benefits and stimulation that we experienced yesterday, AND the
benefits of structure. As I said, I’m
very aware that others probably feel differently, but I felt that we had left
good thoughts ungrounded and that this would be less likely to lead to change
and action.
I’d
also welcome your (and everyone else’s) reaction to the first part of my post
about how we deal with troublemakers rather than how we become them…
Regards,
Richard F Cooke
-----Original Message-----
From:
LouiseVanRhyn@partners-for-change.com [mailto:LouiseVanRhyn@partners-for-change.com]
Sent:
To:
newintermediaries@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: NI -
Troublemakers-R-us
Hi Tony (and Richard)
You've got me excited. Very
excited.
I would love to explore the
'post-authoritarian, disorderly facilitation/leadership model' with you and
anyone else who may be interested, as I am finding myself on this journey too.
I guess my dream would be
for someone to describe me & my facilitation style in the way you described
Fiona's & David's yesterday.
'This way includes more than
it controls, is very empathic, flexible, in the moment, sees itself, embraces
paradoxes such as needing structure AND freedom, brings awareness, choice,
stretches us, trusts us, lets each person find their voice, lets the group live
on the edge between orderliness and chaos, makes "mistakes" and has
built in capacity to recover, and is effective only through moving with the
emerging collective energy/interest in the group. It enables the group to
function as more than the sum of its parts. It enables people to grow.'
Wow !!
But, I am also aware of the
needs of others (in particular my clients). Although I would love to always
work in the way described above, I know that they sometimes just want me to
'get on and facilitate them' (as Richard so eloquently put it yesterday). I am
currently grappling with this and my intentions as facilitator. Wanting to take
care / look after / make it OK for others has often got me in a very difficult
spot and I am finding out that although I may have the best of intentions, my
intentions are often (unconsciously) fed by my own needs to be perceived to be
caring / entertaining / good-value facilitator etc. etc.
And who am I after all to
decide (for others) that it is good for them to be facilitated in whatever
style I choose to facilitate. Who knows whats 'best' / 'right' and on what
grounds ?
I am also learning how much
more it takes from me (as participant) to engage / participate / make sense /
grapple / struggle / be confused when I am 'being facilitated' in the
'post-authoritarian' way. It feels as if it takes more from me (but it is
infinitely more rewarding too !).
My challenge as facilitator
is often to contract with clients in a way that allows me to work in the way
described above. But I am not finding it easy and I find myself spending ages
carefully designing agendas (meeting my own need to appear knowledgeable) to
meet the client's need to be in control of the workshop (meeting my need
to...)...[this can go on for days].....and at the same holding on to my
emerging beliefs around the value of free-flowing conversation and emergent
meaning !
I am delighted to be part of
this conversation (and can't wait to talk about it face-to-face !). Richard
& Tony - thanks for continuing yesterday's conversation on-line.
Louise
-----Original Message-----
From: Jeremy Keeley [mailto:jeremykeeley@keeleycarlisle.co.uk]
Sent:
To:
newintermediaries@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: NI -
Troublemakers-R-us
I'm up for a session on
facilitation and a good old healthy practice of lots of different ways of doing
it!
J
-----Original Message-----
From: Richard F Cooke [mailto:wholean@onetel.net.uk]
Sent:
To:
newintermediaries@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: NI -
Troublemakers-R-us
Great!
Regards,
Richard F Cooke
-----Original Message-----
From: tonypage [mailto:tony@pageconsulting.co.uk]
Sent:
To:
newintermediaries@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: NI -
Troublemakers-R-us
Looks like you've got a few
of us excited now Richard - me, Louise, Jeremy...!!!
Like you Louise I would also
value a kind of workshop in which we could practise, experience and richly
describe different ways of facilitating... And maybe this will make it easier
to contract with client too.
Regarding the first part of
your question Richard (- are you being "troublesome" by bringing this
back to us?!?!?!)how to deal with troublemakers was I felt touched on at
different points yesterday from... throwing them out of the nightclub into the
gutter to... Non-violently eliciting their observations-feelings-needs-requests
a la Jo.
At this moment I'm
interested in the notion that a "troublemaker", although disrupting a
group from the boundary, is experiencing a question over whether they can
contribute, influence and thus be part of a group. What do you do with them
then? Freeing their voice, drawing out of them a previously inexpressible
something, which is then heard and understood (as in Jo's non-violent
communication) seems to me to be a pretty good way of resolving the issue.
You may be able to think of
some other ways. Car parks, agendas, groundrules are I suppose all aimed in
this direction.
Tony
-----Original Message-----
From: Caroline Flexman [mailto:caroline@f-c-s.co.uk]
Sent:
To:
newintermediaries@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: NI -
Troublemakers-R-us
Hi there
I'm also interested in a day
on facilitation - especially if we get the chance to try out new processes.
Reading your point on trouble makers below Tony I was wondering if Nancy
Kline's process described in her book "Time to Think" would be a good
one for honouring a trouble makers positive intention and giving them the time,
space and support to think things through. Has anyone else read
-----Original Message-----
From: Richard F Cooke [mailto:wholean@onetel.net.uk]
Sent:
To:
newintermediaries@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: NI -
Troublemakers-R-us
I agree that Jo's
non-violent communication does hold some answers for this. I suspect that is
what Caroline is also referring to.
I think what I was after was
a range of strategies that perhaps start with dealing with my own reaction of
shock, rage fear etc moving thro to helping them voice their honest concerns
and ending up, as a last resort, with 'throwing them out of the (virtual) night
club'
Regards,
Richard F Cooke
-----Original
Message-----
From: Tessa Bradon [mailto:asset.consulting@dial.pipex.com]
Sent:
To: new Intermediaries
Subject: NI - Nancy Kline's work
Caroline & others
I was interested to hear you
mention Nancy Kline. I did her 4 day course - Leadership for a Thinking
Environment, 4 years ago and I found it really helpful for facilitation &
individual coaching. The thinking rounds process (discussed in the book)
works very well.
Her beliefs include the ideas
that:
Tessa Bradon
-----Original
Message-----
From: AmandaDudman@aol.com [mailto:AmandaDudman@aol.com]
Sent:
To: newintermediaries@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: NI - Troublemakers-R-us
A
disorderly facilitation model is definitely a strong thread that emerged for me
as I have reflected on yesterday. It was indeed stimulating, and Tony,
your paragraph of paradoxical descriptive words around non-authoritarian
facilitation is great. Working with an HR Team today in a very structured
ordered way (their need to have rules, times, an agenda etc....) was in
contrast to the risky floating but grounded process yesterday.
It was stimulating and thought provoking, (thank you again David and Fiona).
Taking this and playing with it some more would be valuable.
Amanda
-----Original Message-----
From: tonypage [mailto:tony@pageconsulting.co.uk]
Sent:
To:
newintermediaries@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: NI -
Troublemakers-R-us
Yep Richard Jo has more on
your question - something like giving yourself empathy first so that you can go
on and help the other person.
You could look at NI
knowledge pool, index, Marshall Rosenberg article - this is covered in a fairly
detailed account of one of his seminars on non-violent comm.... Or you could
ask Jo.
Not sure when you stop
trying and have to throw them out. More usually it goes like this for me - I
feel disturbed, then snap back at someone who irritates me/threatens my
"control" of a group, then they go quiet and sulk for a bit. I try to
patch things up later. Interestingly a couple of my more troublesome
participants have become clients later. I think some people just like to be
handled more roughly - so they feel they've got a reaction, but some don't so mistakes
are inevitable!!
I'm sure others have better
ways.
Tony
-----Original Message-----
From: Julia Williams [mailto:julia@personalimpact.com]
Sent:
To:
newintermediaries@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: NI -
Troublemakers-R-us
Not having had much
experience of facilitating groups, but 20 years of individuals I would love to
come to a workshop on facilitation - with some trepidation - but really willing
to learn as I do from observing and participating as much as I dare. As
everyone tends to offer mostly what they need and have personally valued, it
should be a rich experience. Julia
-----Original Message-----
From: tapelem [mailto:tapelem@yahoo.com]
Sent:
To:
newintermediaries@yahoogroups.com
Subject: NI - Re:
Troublemakers-R-us
Folks,
Bear with me if I challenge
you a little.
I sit here on the sidelines,
reading with interest about your
day
"Troublemaking".
I ask the question, what did
you learn? did you come to any
conclusions? What did you
discuss and how did it happen? Are you
willing to produce a paper
on it? This may all sound like a very
basic request, but if you
wish to share knowledge, then OK, to use
that wonderful buzzword
please be transparent.
It is very hard to put
"self" into troublemaking mode if that is not
within - so I ask how real
was it? Is it possible to *be* a
troublemaker?
None of this is in any way
written to denigate your day, it sounds
positive and fulfilling and
I would love to hear more. Perhaps there
is more to be done on this
issue, before sidetracking onto
facilitation...
..but that is your choice
and this is only my observation.
love
steph
-----Original
Message-----
From: tonypage [mailto:tony@pageconsulting.co.uk]
Sent:
To: newintermediaries@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: NI - Troublemakers-R-us
Here's
a bit of transparency Stef - sorry can't rise to a report though!
Thanks
Amanda for the little gem you gave me at the end after the line-up ex
where we experimented with how it feels to be more or less troublesome (by the
way I felt strangely liberated when I became more troublesome!!!) -
"edgework" was it?
Breaking
out of the tight little circle of chairs is a very memorable image of
troublemaking. It says to me: break out of your comfort zone, move into the
space beyond to make contact with others, try not to frighten/harm others when
you do this, but find and be true to your spirit even if this creates a bit of
TROUBLE and disruption, understand that others might be trying to do this too
PARTICULARLY when their chairs fall on you!
Some
disturbance is inevitable and can be overcome if we can arrive at this boundary
work with understanding, patience and strength. That's a
trustful-generosity-lets-make-contact-messy mindset not a
done-to-I've-got-rights-you-know-tidy one.
Political
correctness breaks down here and I fear "rights oriented" lawyers
could have a field day!
Tony
-----Original Message-----
From: tonypage [mailto:tony@pageconsulting.co.uk]
Sent:
To:
newintermediaries@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: NI - The
Trouble With Troublemakers
Maureen
Thanks for your good wishes.
There were lots of
troublemakers on Weds and when Fiona got us to line up the whole group
naturally gravitated to the troublesome not the compliant end of the room! It's
a calling I think! We discovered a v. high proportion of first children in the
group. I'm a second child, felt more compliant than many but REALLY enjoyed
being invited to stand in a more troublesome place!
Tony
-----Original Message-----
From: Edward Rowland [mailto:edrowland@compuserve.com]
Sent:
To:
INTERNET:newintermediaries@yahoogroups.com
Cc: Edward Rowland
Subject: RE: NI - The
Trouble With Troublemakers
Message text written by
INTERNET:newintermediaries@yahoogroups.com
>It's a calling I think!
We discovered a v.
high proportion of first
children in the group<
Interesting, you mean you're
stretching into the opposite (?) because as you doubtless know all the research
goes the other way - that it's the laterborns who struggle against authority,
identify with the underdogs, become innovators and satirise the dominant, Ralph
Nader, Darwin, Voltaire, Charles Dickens etc.
-----Original Message-----
From: tonypage [mailto:tony@pageconsulting.co.uk]
Sent:
To:
newintermediaries@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: NI - The
Trouble With Troublemakers
Ed
Didn't know the theory of
laterborns. Interesting. Not sure if stretching into "opposite" fully
explains the pattern here. Seems we're all trying different places out for a
while, inside and outside, compliant/holding space/troublesome, stabilising/disrupting.
Lots of places to stand,
lots of boundaries, maybe we're spotting comfort zones and continually moving
outside them?
I'm a second born who got
promoted when my elder sister died and seem to swing from ultra responsible to
maverick! Certainly I struggle with authority...this defines my life and work.
Tony
-----Original Message-----
From: Edward Rowland [mailto:edrowland@compuserve.com]
Sent:
To:
INTERNET:newintermediaries@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: NI - The
Trouble With Troublemakers
Tony,
You can read more in Frank J
Sulloway's BORN TO REBEL, the product of 20 years' work as a researcher at MIT.
It's very interesting,
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/tg/stores/detail/-/books/0349111006/rev
iews/026-7936269-5802011
Best,
Ed
(youngest of 5)
From: FionaCoffey@a...
Date: Fri Nov 8, 2002 4:05 pm
Subject: Re: NI - Re: Troublemakers-R-us
Dear
all
To everyone who came to the workshop - thanks so much for a great day, and for
all the comments and reflections afterwards. I appreciate you kicking off the
feedback Richard, and acknowledge and respect your need for more
structure/tangible outcomes. I'm chuffed by your comments on the mode of
facilitation Tony, Louise, Amanda, and am glad it has sparked off wider
interest in exploring facilitation further.
I'm not sure David and I were so conscious of our interaction or its impact,
but reflecting on our conversations afterwards, it seems that we were holding a
potential tension between us of a preference for structure/control and a
preference for emergence, letting it happen, and wanting to be open about that,
rather than attempting to resolve the conflict in our pre meetings, or
pretending it didn't exist by letting one of us 'win' or control the other on
the day.
I hope it is not too fanciful to suggest that our dilemma reflects, I think,
the dynamic tension which is also at the heart of the challenge of responding
to a so called 'troublemaker'. My sense is that we are served by being both
realistic about the existence of conflict, and positive about the possiblity of
transcending it, drawing upon approaches such as NVC, Nancy Kline, whatever,
where they can help us move forward.
Steph, I'd like to say that I was challenged by your challenge when I read it
this morning. And what I've learned is that this kind of challenge can support
clarity around one's own position and values. So, speaking for myself, my
values around transparency and openness are:
- if I propose a workshop or event for NI, I usually want to make it open to
anyone who wants to come, including friends, colleagues of NI members who hear
of event
- during the workshop I want to try to be as open, transparent, authentic as I
can be in my interactions with others, also to try to create a safe space for
others to do the same
- after the workshop, I and others can choose whether or not to share their
learning, what to share, when and with whom. I don't have an additional
responsibility to be 'transparent' to a wider group of individuals who, for
whatever reason, chose not to participate in the event itself. This meets my
need for a balance between openness and privacy and acknowledges that some of
the learning in this kind of workshop can be quite personal.
With best wishes
Fiona
-----Original
Message-----
From: Julie Bickerton [mailto:Bick.partner@ukgateway.net]
Sent:
To: newintermediaries
Subject: NI - personal relfections on troublemaking
Thank you to all who met and
shared at the cricket club. I felt engaged and involved, supported and
challenged, moved to speak up and moved to listen. David and Fiona I felt and
appreciated your light touch.
Picking up the prompts from
Steph and Richard - what came out of the day from my perspective?
Some reminders
It's not what you say it's
the way that you say it. The underlying motivation will reveal itself and in
part invites the response
Not all trouble making is
intended to be constructive
Content helps to ground.
Reflections
'That was not my intention'
can have the subtext- It was my intention but I didn't want you to
react/respond the way that you have done.
Troublemaking can be
triggered in me when I am bored, feel isolated or ignored feel I am being
manipulated into agreeing with something I disagree with. In short when I am
not OK. I am more likely to be perceived as catalytic, insightful,
constructively challenging when I am OK and in touch with the OKness of the
other.
If I want to stay connected
with the trouble maker I need to challenge myself to look for the underlying
need that they are trying to express and not to be deflected by the perhaps
clumsy strategy for expressing that need.
E-mail could be the
troublemakers new best friend
A realisation
When I look for
trouble/threat I find it and create more for myself by neglecting to focus on
my own power in the situation.
Tessa and
Caroline thanks for the Nancy Kline references. An NI session to learn more
about and experience other dialogue tools e.g thinking rounds, enabling
processes to support the non-authoritarian etc. approach Tony described would
be great.
All the best
Julie
-----Original Message-----
From: tapelem [mailto:tapelem@yahoo.com]
Sent:
To:
newintermediaries@yahoogroups.com
Subject: NI - Re:
Troublemakers-R-us
Dear Fiona,
First let me explain my challenge.
It was made in a spirit of lively
enquiry - not critical.
Challenges are tough to make, I risk causing
*upset* and it seems I have
managed unwittingly to have done so again. Therefore I feel angry with myself.
Responding personally to the
comment concerning choices in attending
an event, yes I could choose
so to do, but my leave is very precious
to me, my family comes
before my needs, therefore weekdays are
difficult.
My understanding of the
"rules" of this group were those which were
published namely...
"This is a community of
practice; dedicated to knowledge sharing and
creation. It offers support,
helping us all to find points of
leverage, to become
distinctive, to communicate what we do in our
work and to a sense of
pride/esprit"
I understand and totally
accept your need to keep personal matters
private, I would not dream
of overstepping that boundary, but if
there is learning to be had
from this event, then I am hungry to
share it.
Someday you will meet me in
person, though heaven knows when, and
maybe realise that I am not
the bogeyman that sometimes I appear to
be!
take care
steph
-----Original
Message-----
From: Julia Williams [mailto:julia@personalimpact.com]
Sent:
To: newintermediaries@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: NI - personal relfections on troublemaking
Julie
I
found this clear, short, insightful and how i see things although i didnt
attend the workshop.
Julia
Williams
Julia Williams
Communications Coach
Personal Impact
www.personalimpact.com
-----Original
Message-----
From: helenamolyneux@compuserve.com
[mailto:helenamolyneux@compuserve.com]
Sent:
To: newintermediaries@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: NI - Troublemakers-R-us
Belated response on the Trouble Maker workshop. I got a lot out of it even though I had to
leave after lunch and missed the afternoon session. The benefit has come for me from being
stimulated to think around the troublemakers issue beforehand, the workshop
itself and the reflections subsequently.
So for those who were there and those who weren’t some reflections a
week later.
Now I realise what a minefield going into email writing can
be, but here we go.
Troublemakers – constructive/destructive?
If I’d been there for the line up, I’d have been at the
non-troublemaker end of the line up even though I am a youngest. (I’ve ordered the book, Born to Rebel. Thanks for the reference. I’ve definitely always had the drive to
strike out differently, though for some reason this hasn’t ended up as me being
cast in the role of troublemaker.) My
perspective coming to the workshop was ‘how can you get the constructive
benefit of troublemakers’. My conclusion
is that there’s a spectrum of trouble makers – TMs for short:
·
Look like TM
but aren’t at all. The TM may perceive
themselves to be a TM. Or the leader or
others as recipients of the TMs action/words, “the troubled”, may initially
perceive them to be a TM. But they are not, because unknown to them, their
different viewpoint matches the leader’s view of what needs to change. In fact
they’re in front of the wave and the leader is thrilled to find out they’re
there.
·
The TM looks
like trouble but their input is in fact very useful once leader/others realised
what it was about, realised their positive intent etc. Diversity of views can produce a better end
result.
·
The TM is
not really trouble but is very challenging and the leader/others have to work
really hard to listen
·
TM is
troubling but you’ll only find out whether they’re going to create real
trouble/threaten the survival/thriving of the organisation or not by listening
and finding out what’s behind and around what they’re doing/saying
·
Definitely trouble
but listen and learn before responding
·
Definitely
trouble and listening didn’t do much except help understand the lay of the
land.
This echoes others comments about listening, exploring and
assuming positive intent at the outset.
I totally agree with the comment that there’s a huge amount in “it’s not
what you say, it’s the way that you say it”. The potential TM will get the
listening in ear of others a lot easier if they flag up at the outset that
what’s coming might be difficult news, if need be flag up their positive intent
and assume positive intent too.
So it seems there’s a lot in this about ‘casting’ which
creates the difficulty in the interactions – people being cast as trouble
makers or casting themselves as troublemakers.
If something troubles me, I don’t think my response need be binary –
either trouble making/voicing or compliant/silent. I think there are lots of ways of
voicing/behaving without necessarily being perceived as a trouble maker. And varied influencing skills to use. How I say it and to whom I say it
matters. Hence for example whistle
blowing policies recognise that you need to have multiple access points to
voice your concern right through to the board.
And like whistle blowing, organisational culture is a big issue for the
way in which trouble making is perceived
- a culture that says it’s a good thing and not a bad one if the intent
is positive makes the whole thing more constructive and easier to do and
handle. If the culture is “if you’re not
with me, you’re against”, then it’s much, much tougher.
Curious isn’t it that both sides of the trouble maker
interaction are ‘troubled’.
And I agree that there will be trouble makers who are
trouble for the survival/thriving of the organisation and there will be troubled
who are more concerned with the status quo or their own survival than
organisational progress or the legitimate concerns of an individual member of
staff, customer, supplier, pressure group etc.
Thanks for putting on the workshop NI.
-----Original Message-----
From: tapelem [mailto:tapelem@yahoo.com]
Sent:
To:
newintermediaries@yahoogroups.com
Subject: NI - Re:
Troublemakers-R-us
Helen,
Thank you so much for your
reflections, they were so clearly
expressed, and rang so many
bells in my head it was very hard to
ignore.
OK so lets try it...what I
write next may be a little difficult to
read but its intent is
positive and not critical, it is a cry for
help to
"understand" the language of this forum. There was much
debate on the language of
expert jargon, and I admit to sometimes
finding it almost impossible
to follow some threads becuase the flow
of thought within although
beautifully crafted is not aimed at the
widest possible readership.
No, I do not have the "expertise of
practice" that comes
with working in your area, but I also do have
more than a few brain cells
which I dust off occasionally and use <joke???> and want to understand
much more than I am able at present. That sometimes can be frustrating and
rather excluding (feels like a
members only club?) - and
yes that is as much to do with
my "feelings" and
not to do with your intent.
Please feel free to come
back at me, I am willing to listen.
And hey, if I had attended
your TM day, I would probably have put
myself at the troublemaking
end, only because of my "white knight"
attitude to life, (hating
dishonesty\injustice\righting wrongs etc
etc!), trying to curb the
rescuing that I seem to have spent much of
my life doing!! As the
office I work in believe in the Margerisonn
McCann TMI system, I find I
am an Upholder Maintainer - a role which
probably describes me to a T
- though I realise that it isn't
supposed to be a "life
script".
Enough me,
over to youse guys..
steph
-----Original Message-----
From: Garth Spiers [mailto:GarthSpiers@compuserve.com]
Sent:
To:
INTERNET:newintermediaries@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: NI - Re:
Troublemakers - what happens online
Dear NI-ers
those who like trouble -
have a look at
Here is what some people
have said
The cluetrain is to
marketing and communications what the open-source movement is to software
development — anarchic, messy, rude, and vastly more powerful than the doomed
bullshit that conventionally passes for wisdom
These troublemakers are
going to get what they deserve — a huge and enthusiastic following!
The authors have written a
must-read book for anyone who's been in business more than five years. The
hardest thing for those of us in that category to understand is that the world
does not revolve around whatever business we happen to be managing. The
Cluetrain Manifesto has no respect for size, success or precedence. It reminds
us that business is about people, not just commerce as such. Guaranteed to be
utterly different from any business strategy book you've ever read
The following is a page of
the first chapter of the book:
The Cluetrain Manifesto:
The End of Business as Usual
We die.
You will never hear those
words spoken in a television ad. Yet this central fact of human existence
colors our world and how we perceive ourselves within it.
"Life is too
short," we say, and it is. Too short for office politics, for busywork and
pointless paper chases, for jumping through hoops and covering our asses, for trying
to please, to not offend, for constantly struggling to achieve some
ever-receding definition of success. Too short as well for worrying whether we
bought the right suit, the right breakfast cereal, the right laptop computer,
the right brand of underarm deodorant.
Life is too short because we
die. Alone with ourselves, we sometimes stop to wonder what's important,
really. Our kids, our friends, our lovers, our losses? Things change and change
is often painful. People get "downsized," move away, the old
neighborhood isn't what it used to be. Children get sick, get better, get
bored, get on our nerves. They grow up hearing news of a world more frightening
than anything in ancient fairy tales. The wicked witch won't really push you
into the oven, honey, but watch out for AK-47s at recess.
Amazingly, we learn to live
with it. Human beings are incredibly resilient. We know it's all temporary,
that we can't freeze the good times or hold back the bad. We roll with the
punches, regroup, rebuild, pick up the pieces, take another shot. We come to
understand that life is just like that. And this seemingly simple understanding
is the seed of a profound wisdom.
It is also the source of a
deep hunger that pervades modern life — a longing for something entirely different
from the reality reinforced by everyday experience. We long for more connection
between what we do for a living and what we genuinely care about, for work
that's more than clock-watching drudgery. We long for release from anonymity,
to be seen as who we feel ourselves to be rather than as the sum of abstract
metrics and parameters. We long to be part of a world that makes sense rather
than accept the accidental alienation imposed by market forces too large to
grasp, to even contemplate.
And this longing is not mere
wistful nostalgia, not just some unreconstructed adolescent dream. It is living
evidence of heart, of what makes us most human.
But companies don't like us
human. They leverage our longing for their own ends. If we feel inadequate, there's
a product that will fill the hole, a bit of fetishistic magic that will make us
complete. Perhaps a new car would do the trick. Maybe a trip to the
Of course, the new car alone
is not enough. It must be made to represent something larger. Much larger. The
blonde draped over the hood looks so much better than the old lady bitching
about the dishes. Surely she'd understand our secret needs. And if we showed up
with her at the big golf game, wouldn't the guys be impressed! Yeah, gotta get
one-a those babies. This isn't about sex, it's about power — the greatest bait
there ever was to seduce the powerless.
Or take it one slice closer
to the bone. Leverage care. For the cost of a jar of peanut butter, you can be
a Great Mom, the kind every kid would love to have. You can look out on your
happy kids playing in that perfect suburban backyard and breathe a little sigh
of contentment that life's so good, with not a wicked witch in sight. Just like
on television.
We die. And there's more
than one way to get it over with. Advertising has some serving suggestions for
your premature burial
-----Original
Message-----
From: David Grey [mailto:davidgrey@lesboel.freeserve.co.uk]
Sent:
To: newintermediaries@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: NI - Troublemakers-R-us
Thanks for this
David